Seeking Input into the Future of B2MeM on LiveJournal

[independence1776]

As we’re sure everyone is aware at this point, LiveJournal has changed its Terms of Service with the new User Agreement. This new agreement says that any content deemed adult under Russian law must be marked as adult on LiveJournal or the journal/community risks deletion without prior warning; “adult” can mean any LBGTQ+ content, no matter what the actual rating is.

We have already changed the adult content settings on the LiveJournal comm to protect the members of this community. This is not a change we agree with; we simply have dozens of members who have not participated in recent years and we do not want to risk their work being deleted. We have not and never will require slash, femslash, and poly fanworks to be rated higher than gen or het fanworks.

The new “adult content” setting means that minors cannot participate on LiveJournal and any person who isn’t logged into LJ must click an age-check banner both to enter the community and also to read individual posts.

Another part of the new ToS says any post that receives more than 3000 hits in 24 hours is subject to review under Article 10.2 of the Federal Act of the Russian Federation No. 149-03. (Go here for an English translation of the law.) While we do not and cannot know how any B2MeM posts fare hits-wise and we believe that fandom is not the target of this law, it is something we are wary about.

Furthermore, there was a recent report that LiveJournal has implemented a new spam blocker. We do not know what the algorithm detects. It is indiscriminate and targets both locked and unlocked posts. This has resulted in some journals and communities in another fandom being deleted without warning; some of them have not been restored despite asking.

We do know that AO3 and DeviantArt are on the whitelist. It appears that smaller fandom archives such as SWG or Faerie are not and links to them are thus considered spam.

Given the above information, we are seeking your input on the future of Back to Middle-earth Month on LiveJournal. We are interested in your opinions on importing the LJ comm to Dreamwidth and which site you would prefer B2MeM to be hosted on.

*** Please click here to fill out a five question survey about this.***

You do NOT need to be a member of B2MeM on LiveJournal to participate; the survey is hosted offsite. We encourage everyone interested in the future of B2MeM no matter your primary platform to answer these questions. We also encourage you to signal boost this survey so that we can reach as wide an audience as possible.

If the decision is made to move to Dreamwidth, we will not delete B2MeM from LiveJournal. The LJ comm was created as a way for multiple groups to participate in B2MeM without needing to be hosted by a particular group. As B2MeM became its own thing, not run by the groups, the LJ community became even more a necessity. There are half a dozen years of history on this community, as well as an untold number of links pointing to it. This is not something we take lightly.

If Dreamwidth becomes our new home, the LiveJournal community will turn into a mod post only mirror for 2018. No participant content will ever be deleted from LJ by the mods unless we are explicitly asked by the creator. There is a way for LJ participants without DW accounts to comment on Dreamwidth posts via OpenID.

If you have questions or would prefer to talk about this via email, please contact the mod team at b2mem.mod@gmail.com.

The poll will close on JUNE 26 at 11:59 PM Hawaiian time. We will post a reminder a few days before then.

Comments

[curiouswombat.livejournal.com]

I would prefer it to be here as, although there is a DW account in my name to stop anyone else using it, I have never really been happy that the site was,at the root, founded to allow people to post paedophile pornography.

But I recognise this is no longer an issue for most people, and I am not a major player in the scheme of things.

[independence1776]

Hi! I'm probably being ridiculous about asking this, but did you fill out the poll as well as comment? We're only counting poll answers in order to keep everyone's thoughts in one place.

I have never really been happy that the site was,at the root, founded to allow people to post paedophile pornography.

This is the first time I've heard that. Do you have more information?

[curiouswombat.livejournal.com]

Yes - although I must admit that I commented then realised I had missed the poll!

Back when LJ was owned by American company Six Apart they received complaints (from their American advertisers I think, but it is quite a long time ago) about some of the content on LJ.

The one people remember best was Nipplegate, of course, when someone objected to any picture with even the hint of a nipple being visible to 'innocent children' and all such were banned as default pictures - which, of course, impacted breast feeding groups and so on. And the stupid thing was that the LJ TOS were then changed (with much less notice than from the Russian owners this time) to justify this, and the new wording meant that naked erect penises were fine as long as some clothing was visible in the picture, but classic pictures of the Madonna and child, or a picture of you nursing your child, could get you banned. Groups and journals disappeared overnight.

What has this to do with DW? Oddly, nothing, as the group who set it up didn't see the need to do so at that point... (Actually it was the Russians who revised that one of the TOS when they took over, saying it was unnecessary!)

When, some months later (maybe a year - I am working from memory) there was a similar objection to content there was a similar swathe of journals and groups affected, but this time they were mostly warned to remove content or face being frozen or deleted. This time the objection was to 'kiddy porn' - it was to art and written fic featuring under-age children in sexual relationships with adults, usually adults in positions of power; i.e explicit pictures or written descriptions of sexual relationships between Harry Potter or his classmates, (aged 13 or 14, sometimes younger) with Dumbledor, Snape, etc. etc.

Again, other groups got caught up in the backwash as Six Apart did a search by tag or similar, and survivor groups found themselves being frozen as well.

But it was the right to post fic featuring anything they wanted that seemed to be the main driving force behind setting up DW, 'to save people from censorship on LJ' - there were vociferous posts on journals (those I knew were mainly in the Buffyverse) about the right to write what they wanted - but, when it comes down to it, those stories and artworks were paedophile porn - just saying the child was Harry and the man raping him was Snape did not change the content.

And it has always left a bit of a sour taste in my mouth. So, although I did once back my journal up to DW, I don't feel comfortable there, although I accept that other people do not feel the same and may prefer it.

[independence1776]

Thank you for sharing your concerns. However, child pornography is not and never was permitted on Dreamwidth per both the Terms of Service and Guiding Principles, as child pornography is illegal under U.S. law, but I understand your discomfort with DW being founded after the deletion of journals on LJ depicting fictional minors involved in sexual activity.

[curiouswombat.livejournal.com]

It wasn't permitted on LJ for that reason, of course - but the very same pictures and stories were then posted there . I remember someone on my FL posting a link to a couple of pictures to show what had been banned on LJ; people interpret the law differently and at that time DW interpreted it as applying only to depictions of sexual activity between 'real' children and adults.

It is good to know that DW now bans such even if the faces are changed to that of actors or the names to that of a known fictional character - but I think I would still prefer to stay here.

[independence1776]

Child porn has a specific legal definiton in the US that requires the presence of an actual child or a computer-generated image indistinguishable from an actual minor. (The link goes to the Department of Justice's plain English explanation of the law.) Portraying clearly fictional minors engaged in sexual activity, even with adults, is not illegal-- nor does it fit the dictionary definition of pedophilia-- and thus still isn't against DW's ToS.

[curiouswombat.livejournal.com]

Isn't that fascinating! It had never occurred to me that American law did not consider the written word to be pornographic.

Here it is the explicit description of, or the depiction of, sexual activity. And if that includes an under 14 year old it is paedophilic, whereas if it includes a 14 or 15 year old it is a slightly lesser category, but still illegal as either an image or written explicit description - the legal age for pornography to depict or describe is 16.

[independence1776]

Just goes to show that different countries operate under different laws about what constitutes an offense. Thanks for keeping this civil.

[keiliss.livejournal.com]

For clarity -- I selected LJ for hosting based on sentiment, for me this is where the comm belongs. Realistically DW would be the more secure choice but I'll be sad to see the move.

[independence1776]

Noted.

[dreamflower]

I much prefer LJ, but the truth is nothing lasts forever, even DW, yet it's likely to last longer than LJ if things keep on going the way they are going.

I've had archives close down on me before, lost comments but thankfully no stories.

There's an old saying about eggs in a basket...

Anyhow, I'm at DW too. I just like LJ better.

[independence1776]

Yeah, LJ does seem to be heading toward disappearing. It will probably never do so entirely, but it'll be a ghost town sooner or later. And like you, I've had archives disappear on me, though I wasn't posting fic on them but merely reading.

This isn't an easy choice to make given the history and nostalgia here, but it's not just about the past. :\